Fake It Till You Make It Fails In Hardware

A vending machine, two refillable bottles, and one blunt question: why is “something tasty” still chained to single-use packaging? I’m joined by Colin DeBlonde, co-founder of Brussels-based startup Dripl, to unpack how that moment became a real hardware business that dispenses healthy flavoured drinks from filtered tap water in workplaces.

We talk honestly about what it’s like to build hardware when everyone around you is chasing software, AI, and subscriptions. Colin shares the painful early lessons of putting machines in front of customers too soon, why “fake it till you make it” backfires with physical products, and how being upfront about prototypes can actually strengthen trust. We also dig into the unglamorous realities: supply chains, on-site updates, reliability, and the slow grind that turns a prototype into something companies depend on every day.

From there we get into the commercial side of workplace hydration. Dripple’s model evolves away from “hydration as a service” because customers want straightforward value, not buzzwords. Colin explains how they think about cost per drink, why health often sells better than sustainability, and how IoT data reveals real behaviour: morning vitamin choices, the 3pm caffeinated rush, and the clues that guide flavour development across regions and sectors. We also discuss choosing the right investors, Spadel’s role as a strategic partner, and what Dripple’s European expansion looks like from a position of operational profitability.

If you enjoy founder stories, sustainable workplace benefits, and practical product thinking, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review. What would make you drink more water at work?

Colin and Dripl will be at the Future of Work conference on the 18th June n Brussels. Get you ticket here: www.future-of-work.eu

Find out more about Dripl here: https://en.dripl.be/

Find out more about the Future of Work -> www.future-of-work.eu

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Marc Curtis 0:01

Hello, welcome to the Pioneers Podcast by Lyrico. I'm Mark Curtis. Today I'm going to be speaking to Colin DeBlonde. Colin is the founder or co-founder of a startup called Dripple. More about them in a minute, actually, because I think it's probably better to hear from Colin about the startup and the journey he's been on and the problem that they're trying to solve. Suffice to say, I've known Colin for a couple of years now, actually. He was one of the first startups that I met when I first came to Brussels and started working with the startup community through Start Lab and through other accelerators. And he really is a really interesting guy, very driven, uh, really innovative in his approach and just so much energy. And hopefully that will come across in the interviews I'm about to do with him. So without any further ado, my conversation with Colin DeBlande. Colin, thank you so much for joining me on the Pioneers podcast today. Really good to see you again. Thank you, Mark. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, Colin, we've known each other, I think, on and off for about three years now, I guess, maybe two or three years. Um, and I think we met through, I'm gonna say Start Lab was maybe where we first met. I think so too.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I dig into my uh memory to be honest.

Marc Curtis 1:12

Yeah, you don't need to worry about it. Um but just to give you a bit of an introduction, um you f you co-founded Drupal in 2019, 2020, around that time, uh with uh Lucas Moreau.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Correct.

Marc Curtis 1:25

Um while you were both students. Um and I I'll get into why you did that and what was it that what insight drove you to do it. Um but presumably you finished your did you finish your university or did you drop out and do the classic kind of tech bro thing and sensitive topic. Okay, fine. We don't have to go there if your parents are listening. Um but I mean, I I think from my perspective, I'm very aware of Drupal, both from the fact that I've known you for a couple of years, um, you've been doing very well in terms of visibility. You're one of those startups in Belgium that when I speak to other startups or other people in that space, everybody's hurt Drupal, which is good. Obviously, that's not your core market. You want to sell to other people as well. Um, and full disclosure as well, you were part of the Future of Work event last year, and I think you did a brilliant job of of um providing drinks at that event, and you're doing it again this year. But so I shall stop talking. Give me a little bit of background. I mean, first of all, um, yeah, what what's your origin story? What's where did you get your superpowers from and and why did you start Drupal?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yeah, thanks for having me, Mark, and uh thanks for the introduction. I think you mentioned a few things already. So we started off, we had the first idea in in 2020, where uh Lucas, my co-founder, uh who you mentioned, and I, we were standing at this this old vending machine, and uh we had our drinking bottle in our hands as eco-conscious guys, a Dopper, and we said to each other, how dick is it that I can refill my bottle with water? From the moment I want something refreshing, something tasty, it's always out of the single-use packaging, uh, the cans, the bottles, and so on. So we did a deep dive then in the soda industry. Um, the the ex-CTO of Coca-Cola Global is actually uh from Ghent, and so had a lot of interesting chats with him and other uh former and sea level people from these kind of companies. And how did you make those connections? Um via LinkedIn actually. Um I did a lot of LinkedIn stalking back in the day, and I still do. So that works then.

Marc Curtis 3:32

You actually managed to talk to the right people. I mean, that's a good effort for LinkedIn. LinkedIn, if you're listening, uh, we are available for sponsorship.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Exactly that. But I think the nice thing of being an entrepreneur and definitely young entrepreneur, you have like this sort of um what's the English word? Uh you're a bit likable because either way you're trying to um yeah, start a company, you have a vision um that you want to help bring out people on the want to help. There's a lot of goodwill, there's this paying forward mindset which is really growing as well. And uh I really felt that in the in the beginning as well. Okay, um, so this was super interesting because they actually said um there's one reason why the big players, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo and so on, aren't providing a solution like we want to, something that's sustainable, that's more healthy, actually, as well. Um, I think you can um uh take a guess at what that is, Mark. Uh but in short, it's margins, yeah. So the economics of things. Um, so doing this deep dive, we also thought saw that it's not only the sustainable aspect, but also also, of course, um the health aspect. I don't think that Coca-Cola is famous for bringing out healthy drinks uh that are very uh nutritious. Um so hence we thought okay, this has to be uh improved, and uh we started building in the garage, uh built our first prototype in uh 2020 then and uh did some first tests, and then after a full year of intense development, um Lucas did the development, I did the storytelling. Um is he an engineer or is he he's an engineer, yeah. We both and is that where you were studying at university as well? Yeah, we we studied together in Antwerp. We did product development uh after the bachelor there. Uh we decided to do different masters, um, where he started industrially uh industrial engineering, sorry, and I started uh studying economics. Um, but we already started with Drupal actually in our third year of our bachelor, and um, so about a year later we decided to formalize things, start Drupal for real, and and there was a lot of traction and a lot of interest from customers, uh from accelerators and so on as well. So we decided to jump. Um, I think in hindsight, uh too early. We were super optimistic about um how big we already were when we had like two conversations with uh with customers, and we thought, okay, um a pot of gold, and uh we're here to uh to save the world. Um, but I think the um being naive at that moment really helped us, just like super focused. It was difficult to do like exams in the morning and then the afternoon go to a meeting with the RD partner uh or an investor. So I think uh that really helped us move forward. But in hindsight, I would say stick or stay in school, stay in school kids, stay in school kids uh until you're like really sure that uh you have a product market fit and so on. But it worked for you, right? I mean it worked out for us, yeah. Yeah, but with the disclaimer that we're like really early stage, yeah, yeah.

Marc Curtis 6:41

But uh do you I mean it sounds like you weren't going to those initial customers and investors with just an idea with vaporware, you were actually going with a prototype, you'd already kind of made something, you'd you'd kind of you bought it to life. And and and I think certainly in my experience, when you've got something that you can show something tangible that you can show people, yeah, it you know, because I mean I'm not not criticizing investors and and customers, but sometimes they need something to pin their imagination on, right? Rather than just being being sort of excited about a story.

Hardware Is Hard For Real

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Yeah, and I think only being excited about a story works when you've got a proven track record, you're then you're in PhD in three um topics or or a serial entrepreneur. But if you're 21 and don't have anything to show, then uh you can't get funded or assign customers with only a story. Uh so then it's very important to show initial traction. Uh in our case, a physical prototype of uh the product of the technology to yeah, prove yourself and build a bit of credibility.

Marc Curtis 7:48

And the the the hardware aspect of it, um one of the one of the sort of the the it's a trope, I guess, of being of getting in startup world is hardware is hard, right? A lot harder than than people sometimes estimate. Yeah. Do did was that a shock for you guys, or did you think you'd kind of nailed it after that first prototype and and that was it, job done. Now we have to do is get customers, or or or was it really easy for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, the funny thing is here, this bit of a running joke that uh Lucas, um in I think off after one year of Drupal, when we had like the first in quotation marks, a finished version of our prototype. Lucas literally said, uh, Colin, I'm a bit concerned. Uh the product is finished. What will I do? Um you didn't see your role in the company for himself. What will my job be? Okay. So that was the biggest joke ever because the year or two afterwards, we really, really felt what hardware is hard meant, and the sense of um we brought a few devices far too early to the market. Um, we had a lot of put a lot of effort in uh keeping these customers happy, uh, even if they uh had uh or even though they had a lot of product issues, um and so on. So today we're in a in a stage where we're so excited to be in hardware, we have a reliable product, we're seeing that um the SaaSpockalypse is uh is something that's that's a thing and that doesn't affect hardware, so we have a super strong mode on that aspect. So in a world where every other week uh Claude or ChatGPT are launching new um versions of the product, and as a software startup, you're worried if they'll eat you alive as well. Then it's very nice to be on hardware. Um, but the the downside is still is that it's a physical product, you have uh complex supply chains, doing product updates takes time. You can't just update at the pressure of a button if you want to update all your devices or all your products in the field, and it costs a lot of money because you have to be there physically, you have to buy parts, switch the parts, and so on. Um so hardware is definitely hard. We've seen and felt that in the beginning. A lot of stories to tell about that. Um, but in the end, now um I've never been more happy to be in hardware.

Prototype Honesty Over Hype

Marc Curtis 10:12

No, no, I mean, yeah, it's funny. I I I won't bore you with the conversations that I had with my wife, but but I think there is a real pervasive sense at the moment that actually the last place you need to be is anywhere near software development. It's so rapidly moving that that, or well, not just software development, but almost in any role which is dependent upon the intangible. If you're doing something, if you're doing something in the real world with real people, and this is, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and plug the future of work, but I mean that's kind of the point of the whole event, is that with all that's going on with AI and digitization of the workplace, actually physicality, tangibility, being face to face with somebody, and by the way, this is lovely, but normally I do these interviews over um over Teams or whatever, and and and and even this feels like a completely different experience for me. So, you know, I I completely get it. What I'm actually quite interested in, just purely from a from a development perspective, is uh and my background is a little bit of software development, you know, I've been a developer in my time, and and I'm very aware of the fact that the first big test you have is when you actually put your product in front of a customer, and that you learn so much from that, and that's where your iterations come. But with hardware, iterations necessarily are far lengthier, right? So what kind of lessons did you learn from from the first installation of the first Drupal machine with your customers? And what was the biggest maybe um assumption that you made or or incorrect kind of direction you made with with with the hardware that you're working on with?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Uh I think that's a bit contradictory to what you're hearing a lot, that uh indeed you learn a lot from um letting users use a product for the first time, and then that really um like develops your roadmap and makes sure that you know better what to develop. But if we look at what at the plan that we actually had and the product that we wanted to develop, and the the product that eventually was validated by users, there's not that much difference there actually. So you got it right. So we got it pretty right in the beginning. Where we got it wrong was um in terms of I think on the product side we also got a lot of things wrong to do. But I think like we didn't do any major pivots where there weren't any aha moments that we thought, okay, this is something totally different that people want. Right.

Marc Curtis 12:49

So you you you basically start off thinking we want to create a machine that can dispense um drinks that have that have that have got flavours or or or whatever that's somehow better than whatever you can get in a can of coke or whatever. Not you know, other horrible drinks are available. Um I'm not a fan of Coke, by the way, I should probably say. Um but I guess the delivery mechanism actually was was always more or less what you wanted to do. I'm guessing maybe the flavors or the the actual drinks themselves were the thing that required more development work.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah, exactly. So but it's more in the margins of in terms of hardware, was more in the margins of okay, how does the product look? Um how should we set up the the screen, and for what kind of locations is this, uh, what location requires what and so on. And then regarding the the interface and the the drinks, that's where we learned the most. But I think the biggest mistake that we made back in the day was not being upfront enough on that it's a prototype and that it's not a finished product. So this is something that when we started off, thought you can't tell your my customers or people, real potential customers, uh, that your product is not working. We had like a sense of okay, we need to prove ourselves as uh young entrepreneurs. Fake it till you make it fake it till you make it. This is the sentence that we really believed in in the beginning, which is not true in hardware.

Marc Curtis 14:20

It's not true because that'll just it sets unrealistic expectations, right? It does because if if people and but I mean my experience has been that if you bring customers along with you and say, Do you know what you're you're working with us to create something amazing and you're gonna be in that process, by the way, and also you get access to the product. Most customers are quite delighted to be involved in it, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Exactly that. There are a million ways of making sure that um you can still sign a commercial agreement with them uh along the way and provide them with like I don't know, an early believer price. Um just be upfront on hey, this is a prototype, you need to do some tests, so let's dive in this together. And we try to market it too much as a finished product already, right? And then you have, of course, you s you set set the expectations wrong, and then customers are uh less happy than they than they should be.

Marc Curtis 15:10

Yeah, so be honest up front, basically.

Business Model Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Don't be honest up front, and uh I think the biggest learning is uh fake it till you make it. For hardware, it really doesn't fit. Um you can't down the line update all the products that you have.

Marc Curtis 15:25

It doesn't and and how about the business model? You you you've so I think I'm right in thinking that your business model at the moment is you you're not selling the the units themselves, you're it's a service agreement. So you're you you you get the unit, presumably there'll be a fee attached to that, there's a servicing charge, and then they're buying the consumables, which is the the various different concentrates that turn into the the various drinks. And and they they can take, I mean, I'm not trying to sell your product for you. Sound feels like I'm doing a same thing. You're doing a good job, you're yeah. And and the amazing thing about it is, um no, but the and I think um I'm right in thinking that you can put in a number of different flavors in there, right? So like three or four flavors or something like that. Yeah, so was that the business model you you always knew you were gonna go for as well, or or was that something that evolved over time?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, it's it's something that evolved in the beginning. We thought, okay, um we married ourselves a lot to uh SaaS companies as well, software companies, and we're also thinking more on subscription models and priority subscription models, and also tapping into this yeah, the new business model at the time. Um, but in the end, be there also listening to customers, and they said um we don't need uh SaaS for everything. Um hydration as a service sounds fancy, but in the end, you just want to pay for what we need to do.

Marc Curtis 16:41

It sounds like some of the chat GPT would potentially come up with. Yeah, hydration service. The thing is, I can genuinely you know, if if four years ago, if you'd come to me and say, I've got this great idea, it's hydration service, I'd be like, Yeah, okay, let's do it. But actually it's bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, and the interesting thing there is there's some um conflict, I would say, between what investors were also saying, like, oh yeah, this the subscription model, it's perfect. And when you're doing talks with investors, that you're getting a confirmation of this is the way to go, but when talking to your customers, exactly, right? Yeah, they'll say something else. And yeah, and I think it's important to listen to the market, listen to customers, and that's the most important aspect, and and the rest will uh will follow. Um, so in that sense, then also um indeed adapt to the model that you just just described to your paper consumption or per flavor box that we provide, and then then we rent or buy the device from us.

Marc Curtis 17:37

I'm I'm sort of interested in in exploring a little bit because investment is a funny, you know, it's kind of a black box to most people who uh haven't been through the the funding process, they haven't started a company, they're not in the startup world. Investment seems like a you know kind of a magic thing. And I think to a lot of startups it feels a bit magic initially until you you've gone through a few rounds. But how much uh how much pressure are they putting on you as a company they're investing in to go down a certain route? Because I mean it I mean you could so easily have said, oh yeah, if you want to if you want to give us a stake and you know, give us a chunk of money for the company, we will do hydration as a service, which would have been a terrible error, right? Yeah, and they wouldn't have got their money back either. So do you do you see that a lot happening, especially with your your contemporaries? Because I know you're fairly active in the startup space and you know a lot of other uh startups. Is is that is that a real risk that investors are trying to guide startups down routes because because they've got a different understanding of what the the opportunity is.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah, I think the answer to this question is it depends of of what investor, of course.

Marc Curtis 18:44

But not none of your investors, I'm sure they're all absolutely fine and lovely and would never do anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Of course. My investors are fantastic. Uh no, but we uh jokes aside, we were very lucky that we got supported by the right people in the beginning as well, that really stressed how important it is to choose the right investors. And uh it's it's like a marriage, you're taking someone on in your cap table, and it's really hard to uh to get divorced. Right. And uh you really want to uh yeah uh hop on the venture for for the long term and be sure to have people who have the same mindset, enjoy working with, and you can provide value as well. So I think we we made the right choices and we're sincerely very happy with our investors.

Marc Curtis 19:30

Spadel is one of your investors, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, were they one of the early ones? They were pretty early in 2023. They invested. Um and Spadel uh has been fantastic as well, to be honest.

Marc Curtis 19:41

Um it's an interesting so it's but to to non-Belgians, Spadel is the water brand in Belgium. If you if you're in Belgian and you're drinking bottled water, you're drinking Spadel water, right? I mean there is no other water here, and and Belgians are really proud of Spadel as well. Yeah. Um and I know that with you know Lyrico sells Spadel stuff as well, so I'm not, you know, again, I'm not trying to do an advert. Um what what I find interesting is that they're they're they're not trying to buy you yet. You know, they they're they're investing in you. Effectively, you you you could make an argument that you're a competitor of theirs. Yeah. Did you ever was that ever a conversation? Did they ever did they ever say, oh, you know, actually we've we've got a really open attitude to bringing the competition in or in you know, or or investing in things that could one day eat some of our market?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Very good question, because even on top of that, next to being competitors, our mission is like really something that's against Padel in the sense of we're actually against uh transporting bottled water, against the single packaging of water. Um and when Spadel approached us, we were very hesitant to even talk to him, to be honest. Um but after some conversations, we saw that they were actually they also have a mindset that they know that the market is evolving and they see a future that's similar to ours, and they also know that they continue to innovate on terms of products, in terms of yeah, what they're offering, and and that tap order also has this as this place. Of course, triple also uh is always connected to tap order with filtering.

Marc Curtis 21:26

Right, so you're not you don't do a solution which for instance would have a big bottle of Spadel attached to it, then no, we're not, we're not.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Um so that's not the not the idea, also something that customers wouldn't uh wouldn't want. Um so but we learned that they were actually really eager to to to know or to see how the market evolves, and um in that sense they have a more they have an approach of of really um looking at uh different possible scenarios for the for the future. So in that sense, it makes sense to invest in drip. As well, take a minority share, um, where there's a lot of synergies in practice. So they're still really B2C brands where triple is focused on workplaces. So that's also a different aspect to why it's interesting for them that we're really building out uh um a direct market within workplaces, and that's something that they uh they're um they typically also do via partners, yeah, like uh Lyrico, for example.

Marc Curtis 22:28

Um and and you I mean you you focus very strongly on B2B, and I'm guessing that's more or less from the outset you had that in your mind, or was that a decision that came later on in the in the in the development of your roadmap?

Why Workplaces Beat On-The-Go

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Well, in the beginning, this is something that we pivoted on in quotations, Marks, in the sense that we were first thinking of being a product that's to go. Right. Um that you'd find us in uh a to go store, um the train station on campuses and so on. And then we quickly saw that on one aspect our impact is far bigger uh within the office environment. You have a lot more people um on dense space that are drinking uh water and sodas and so on. Um per device would have a bigger reach, I'd say. Um and the business model also made uh more sense. So these two really pointed more to the workplace and hotels actually as well, than really uh the on the go context.

Marc Curtis 23:26

So I I I see a couple of there's a couple of interesting points that come out for me there. One is I I'm wondering how I mean, because you as a company you kind of formed, you know, peak beginning of COVID kind of era, right? So absolutely, yeah. And I don't think it's you know, I mean, I've I've spoken and and written a lot about it, you know, the impact of COVID on on workplaces, on workplace culture, on just the way we even think about offices has completely changed. And and you know, maybe it will return to something pre-COVID, but probably not. Almost certainly hybrid working is here to stay that that the model is changing, that the occupancy rates of offices is is fundamentally shifted. I only have to look around our office here to see that. That's got to have an impact on your business as well. I mean, I don't I mean I'm guessing the only benefit there is that you've never really supplied offices during the before times. So exactly. So so so that's sort of question one, you know, is is the changing in modality of work an issue for for the Drupal business? Um well we'll stop there actually, because I've got another question which is more about regulatory environments and how that helps your business. But I'm I'm interested to know how do you see how do you see that impacting? And and is that a developing situation for you or is it does it feel quite stable at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

That's that's an interesting one because we indeed we started during the COVID pandemic. Um and 2021, 2022, we we went to market, to the workplace market, and validated a business model which made sense in a context where uh occupancy was indeed low. Um so the mindset was if it makes sense now, then it'll definitely make sense in the in the future. Um and it didn't really matter if that the base scenario, um how many people were at the office at that moment just be the same, or if it would grow because we already had a business model that made sense. Um so I think we're lucky we didn't start sooner because then probably made, I don't know, RD decisions of more expensive products, um, where you need more usage to uh be able to facilitate uh the the cost that you're putting into it. So, in that aspect, we started off in the context of COVID, it worked for us, and since then we've only seen that more people are coming back to the office again. Uh so we also see this in the usage. It's very interesting to see in our analytics on what days people are coming to office.

Marc Curtis 26:00

Yeah, that I was gonna say because because your devices are IoT enabled, right? So you can you can get real-time stats from the devices to see peak times, whether things have run out. Primarily from a servicing perspective, but also the the data you're getting from that is is quite interesting. Are you doing anything with that data rather than other than using it to refill the the flavor packages?

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Uh a lot of things. I think a lot of the data that we use is to optimize our service as well. So um in terms of predictability of when uh a device is down or when you see that something's not um not correct, or usage is suddenly low with the device, then we know that there's something going on. We also have some sensors that can tell us what's going on if there's something something wrong. Um, so that on one aspect, but of course, regarding uh flavors and all the uh usage data for our flavors, and on what what moment of the day are people drinking Drupal, in what context, and what kind of sector is, for example, or what regions even difference between the Netherlands, Belgium, and expanding to a few more countries uh very soon. So it's already interesting to see the differences there, and we use this data as well to um drive our decisions on which flavors we're launching.

Marc Curtis 27:16

Okay, so I'm a data nerd. You hit me up with some some stats here. You know, what's the flavor for favorite flavor? What's what how does it change throughout the day? Are you doing loads of questions? But are you doing nootropic type drinks as well, sort of performance-enhancing drinks throughout the day? And do you see the pattern of consumption of those change throughout the day as well? Yeah, lots of questions, but you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Um so that's very interesting. And sometimes we feel that we have too much data that we can handle, to be honest, because we have our functional drinks, we have non-functional drinks, uh, you have the time in the day, you have different sectors, you have company sizes. Um, so we have high-level data per company. Um, and we can see what drinks are uh being consumed throughout the day. And then, for example, we see perfectly somewhere between three and four people are rushing towards the caffeinated drinks uh to fight the afternoon slump. Um, and some other ones like the vitamin-infused, the vitamin boost flavor, that's one that's very popular in the morning, right? Um, and then we can also see this um the evolution of consumption over the day and also spot where we have gaps and where we can fill that in. And then we use this to talk to users and understand um why aren't you hydrating at that moment? Why are you still drinking your uh Red Bull then or your fifth coffee of the day? And how can Drupal help to uh make you drink better, hydrate better? So we use it as metadata to then um go to consumers and really understand okay, what's the reason behind this data? And then um plug our flavor development and flavor um reasoning, I'd say, uh, behind that, both in terms of kind of flavor, but also the functionals.

Data Insights On Flavour Habits

Marc Curtis 29:04

When you're when you're talking to customers, especially big you know, companies with large campuses and presumably lots of workers there, are you are you making any claims about productivity or focus or I mean you know clearly there's a link between good hydration and well-being and you know headaches and concentration and so forth, but then you've you you know you've just said I didn't realize you did caffeinated drinks as well. So you know, you've got vitamins in the morning, you've got your caffeine in the afternoon. Are you able to make any kind of claims around if you've got one of our machines in your in your office, your staff will be happier, healthier, more productive?

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Sounds like the end of a radio head song, but you know it's well there I think that the biggest claim that we make or the biggest aspect of LB is of course being hydrated, and there's a lot of research on how much your productivity drops when you're not hydrated or not drinking water enough. And I think it's something that's recognizable for everyone that you're forgetting to drink water, that you're really not achieving two liters uh per day. Um so if you if you count how much um water you're drinking, um almost every says okay, everyone says I'm not I'm not drinking enough. Um, so that's definitely the biggest aspect. And then the the key mindset at RIPL is to make sure that the drinks are tasty and that the taste is king, and that we only support people to drink enough where the taste um is good and that you really want to effortlessly dispense your drink and go on with your day. And we're talking to users, we also see that this is the main reason why people are drinking dripple, although that we also have function aspects. Then there's a more specific uh there are more specific use cases, like indeed um uh a caffeinated drink, where we have um the mate energy, for example, where you would have uh far uh more easier um energy flow, I'd say, if you drink uh the mate compared to coffee, where you have a very sharp energy crease and then energy crash as well. So that evens it out a bit like the matcha. Um do you know what?

Marc Curtis 31:15

I I don't yeah, it's a mad thing to say because I'm I'm an absolute 90s hippie, but I've never had matcha.

unknown 31:21

Okay.

Marc Curtis 31:22

Never had it. Don't know why. I mean it's like it feels like saying I've never seen Star Wars, which I have seen, but I've never had matcha. Um so yeah, that I I I'm I'm I am interested in that. I'm interested to know why why are people buying your product? But why are companies, you know, what's their main reasoning behind it? If you're going into a company and it's you know you're putting in four or five units or whatever, what what are they what do they think they're getting from that? Are they because presumably if if people are drinking cans of coke or or what have you, they're probably buying that themselves anyway, right? And by and large, I think Drupal, you don't pay for it in a business, do you? It's it's it's basically just a water I'm it sounds wrong to modest, but uh a flavoured water fountain. No, it's not a flavoured water fountain. It's a it's it's uh it's it's flavored. What would you call it? I'm calling it flavoured water, but that sounds very reductive, which which I which I'm I now feel bad for.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

It's it's still a difficult one because in the end we're we're actually a new category. Yeah, building out a new category, and it's not a water fountain, it's not a coffee machine, it's not a fridge full of sodas. Um it's something in between, to be honest. And so some uh sometimes it's uh brought back to flavoured water. Um we keep it.

Marc Curtis 32:32

It doesn't sound right, it doesn't sound enough though, does it?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Flavored water just sounds like somebody's dropped a lemon slice of it water or something. Yeah. Um, so we tend to call it uh uh healthy hydration or flavored healthy hydration, um, because it didn't matter, it encapsulates a bit more, I'd say. Um but in the end, customers choose Drupal for different reasons. The the health aspect is is reason number one. So I was talking about uh our uh and why the reason that we started Drupal, which was really sustainability driven, and along the way, when talking to customers, we found out uh health is the most important aspect.

Marc Curtis 33:10

So that's interesting. Yeah, I mean again, 90s hippie. So, you know, for me, the sustainability aspect is probably still more front of mind when I think about the choices that I make. Uh rather than, you know, and as I get older as well, health is a big part of it as well. But they're almost like two different tracks. But in recent times, it's almost like it's not that sustainability's dropped off the agenda, it's now become embedded. So we we kind of we have an expectation that something should be, you know, low waste or recyclable or or packaging free or what have you. Yeah. Is is that something you've so you started off going to the market with something that was fundamentally about reducing packaging. But actually that's not the message that what you're saying is that's not the message that necessarily sells the product. It's it's more about hydrating people in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, exactly. Um so indeed either the baseline sustainability or people do care less actually than I would say two, three years ago. So there is some evolution and I believe in the upper trend and will continue to grow.

Marc Curtis 34:19

Uh is it still in terms of the DNA of Drupal and you and your partner, is that still the driving force, or is that still the thing that that pushes you?

Sustainability Goals And True Costs

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Absolutely. It's core. So it's it's really listen to Simon Senek, the the inner layer of the onion. Yeah. Um and along the way, discovering that you're actually not only solving uh uh a climate problem, um an ecological problem, but also a well-being topic that empowers it even more. I'd say it's not mutually exclusive, right? You you can do that, yeah. And we're both super, super passionate about uh health and well-being as well. Um, so yeah, honestly, also blessed that we can combine it in in that way, and um, it's uh it's something that um yeah, that that really fit us as founders as well, because that that's also very uh important, I think, to bring a product to market. Talk a lot about product market fits, but there's also this founder fit. And if you're super eco-minded guys and we discover that well-being is uh core to selling the product, but really not interested in uh nutrition or hydration or any science behind that, then there's no founder fit. And I don't think it would be a good idea to continue to uh trying to sell that to the market. So that as well really really matched us, and um reducing us ourselves as much in hydration and well-being as as uh we're doing in sustainability.

Marc Curtis 35:55

You you I I mean I I read I read when I was looking into things a little bit that you have a uh an ambition to eliminate a billion um a billion packages or packagings. Um I mean that's a big number. Yeah. Uh do you think do you think you're gonna get there? Uh do you think Europe will get there? Do you think that the the the the movement in in that direction to reduce packaging is is is what's gonna enable you to get that goal?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

I think we'll we'll get there. And we'll do it, be able to do it by bringing triple to the market and convincing companies uh and other contexts as well uh to implement triple and in that way prevent packages, um, but through different ways of the sustainability narrative. So through convincing or showing that Drupal is just a better solution, tastes better, is more convenient, looks better.

Marc Curtis 36:52

Presumably as well. I mean, one of the big challenges with sustainable sustainability focused products is that quite often there's a premium attached to it, right? There's the sustain the sustainability premium. What you're doing is actually removing a cost, I would think. I mean, yeah, if I look at comparable businesses, I mean the the you know, in in bars and pubs and what have you in restaurants, they've been using Coca-Cola concentrates and lemonade concentrates for years. The margin on them is it is enormous because they charge the same price as a can and they're they're effectively using a concentrate with where the ingredients are like pennies on the you know, pennies for the drink. Yeah. Is that true of yours as well? Are you able to keep the cost down because there's no packaging, or are there is that offset to some extent by the fact that you've got all the hardware costs as well?

SPEAKER_00 37:42

I think in the end, if you would compare it to soda, you'll per drink will pay less for triple in than uh a classic soda can. Um and that derives from different things, I think. I I think the way you build margins, the business model, and so on. Um, I think the for Drupal will still have a higher cost of goods for per drink than Coca-Cola just due to the economies of scale.

Marc Curtis 38:10

Um and the fact that you're not you're not um plumbing a river in Mexico and uh removing all of the water through yeah, you don't have externalities that uh that can bring our cocks down.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Uh very true. Um so in that aspect it's also an important um component of convincing companies, but it's not the narrative that you lead with. Of course, when you're dealing with a story of um cost efficient, then that's you have to keep that promise. And from the moment you're breaking that promise, uh companies will uh or your customer point and you and say, like you're cost efficient, and that's that's not true. And we tend to focus on the quality of the product and and the drinks, um to to convince you users, lots of companies to uh to implement triple. Yeah.

Learning Finance And Founder Fit

Marc Curtis 39:04

And as long as you're not substantially more expensive, as long as you're comparable or slightly less, then it's an obvious choice, right? I'm I'm I said to you as we were coming in just before we started recording, I'm somewhat in awe of when I meet founders who have not only done what they've done, especially whilst they're at university, but actually made it into, you know, the beginnings, or even in your case, you know, the the some way past the beginning of a successful business. Um how and you were doing economics, did you say at university, right? A bit of universe, some economics, so a quantum of economics. Um when you first started down this road, and I and this is always I'm always struck by this. I'm always I always really want to ask startup founders this how much of what you know now in terms of thinking about cost of goods, margin, supply chain, how much of that did you have to, you know, terrifyingly learn from scratch, you know, and and how long, you know, what was that process like? You know, were you waking up, you know, in a sweat thinking, I have no idea what eBit is, or CapEx, or you know, any of these kind of terminologies?

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah, I think we obviously learned a lot along the way, and that's also the the fun part, uh part that we think is fun of uh entrepreneurship, uh, is that you are a bit you're actually forced to learn to learn a lot along the way. So your personal growth is it's also yeah, um steroids, I'd say. Um so that's that's really fun. And regarding everything that has to do with finance, uh on one hand, it was making sure that we're also um supported by the right people. So beginning, we're definitely not doing everything.

Marc Curtis 40:49

And you mentioned did you say Stephen Van Bellingham is is an advisor on your podcast? No, Steven's not. I just listened to the podcast. Oh, you just listen to the podcast? No, I know that there's because I know that Stephen is quite he gives a lot of his time to startups in Belgium, so I didn't know whether he was involved with you guys or not.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

I haven't talked to him personally.

Marc Curtis 41:06

Have you not? Well you can meet him at you can meet him at the um meet him at the uh future work day. Ah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Steven? You know Steven, if you're listening, make sure you meet Colin. Um how is your relationship with Lucas? Great. So you because you because it's been what six years now, it's right.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

So we studied together and we did product development together, and there already we did two uh school projects um together where um in product development it's a bit like architecture, you have a lot of assignments, and it's typical that you have to do late nights and you have to work hard to get like prototype finished and everything. We did that um with the two of us already, and that was already like a very good indication of okay, we can work together well, even under pressure and so on, and have fun while doing so. And I think uh six years later, uh six years later, um we'll both should ask because as well. We're still both saying the same. Um, that it's uh it's been a fantastic journey, uh, definitely not always an uh an easy one due to the hardware aspects and uh and so on. But it's it's been so much fun, and in that sense, very, very uh happy that that we can do this uh together. Um we're best friends and co-founders, and that makes life a lot easier, has a lot more fun as well. Yeah.

Marc Curtis 42:33

No, that is great. I mean, yeah, I mean you need to you need to have a good relationship, right? And I and I suppose as you're saying, it's like a marriage, isn't it? You you you know, you you you have your strengths and you have your you know, the things that he does, the things that you do, you complement each other well. Um is he still very much involved in the in the hardware development side of things? Because I know you've recently uh because when I first saw your the machines that you were putting into businesses, they were kind of like a look like a water fountain, effectively. And and I know I've seen some pictures, and I think you're bringing some to the future of work event where they're more like in a in like a cabinet furniture almost um thing, right? So is he responsible for that? Is it the Johnny Ives of um Lucas still has a job doing six later?

Why Big Corporates Struggle Here

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Um so continuing to do uh development of the product, but also um drawing out the the general lines of beyond the hardware, uh the drinks, how we look at um yeah, everything that has to do with our product ecosystem.

Marc Curtis 43:33

So that's that's a big I've not really touched on that, but I mean I mean you you're a trip uh double threat, really. I mean, you've got to do all this hardware stuff and sales and all the thing that goes along with that. And then also you've got effectively an entirely different product that you have to you know design and and develop and and test and so forth. I mean, is is is Lucas involved in that as well? Is he doing the the He is, yeah. Lucas overseas. Both, I'd say. And you're working with uh are you working with like a consultancy to help you with drink flavors and all that kind of stuff? I mean, I have no idea how it works to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Yeah, we have an expert in-house um that works with an external partner uh to the development. So it's a bit of both in that sense. Um but indeed it's uh it it's a lot to do. So of course the the reason of um people using Drupal and uh using it every day is because the total experience makes sense from the touch of a button, which is software, to uh the reliability, which is the hardware, uh towards making it personal, which is also enabled by the hardware, but also of course the taste of the drinks. So everything should make sense. Um so that's a big challenge, but also um yeah, a huge moat that you have as a company as well, when you can check it off and make it work together, which others uh failed in. PepsiCo, by the way, tried it themselves and um they weren't very successful at it. Um why did they get it wrong? I think in their case it has it doesn't have to do with uh their RD capacities, but more they've got I mean they can throw money at the problem, right? Yeah, they have m I think uh a hundred triples or a thousand triples in terms of uh resources. Um but the the thing in their case is I think due to being such a big big company, a corporate, and having their own vision, uh going with that to market, um they they actually didn't listen to the market, they pushed the product, they just developed low-key, they brought it to market, um the costs for it were were super high. They didn't crack the go-to-market nuts where you need a lot of passion and conviction in what you're doing to bring it to market and make sure that the the first customers are are signing up. And having a far too high cost structure with um not enough conviction in convincing the first customers to adopt a new category, a totally new category, um made sure that they weren't successful at it.

Marc Curtis 46:12

Have you ever did you ever come across the the cautionary startup tale of Juicero? Juicero.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

I absolutely have, yeah.

Marc Curtis 46:18

I watched a like YouTube video on it. The teardown of the machine and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, interesting. Just for anybody who's listening, those very few listeners out there who are interested, Jucero was uh again, another hardware startup um with huge amounts of investment. I mean, huge amounts of investment to create a machine that could basically juice packets of pre-prepared fresh ingredients. Which they I mean, this is the incredible thing about it. They they they did everything. They they built this incredibly over-engineered machine. I mean, it's beautiful. It's beautiful, engineered, everything bespoke. Enough everything was crafted and machined and you know, this beautiful machine. And then they set up this entire supply chain with all these farms to supply all the raw ingredients to put them into these packages, and and it would scan the package when you put it into the machine and it would apply exactly the right amount of pressure to give you your juice drink. And the first person that one of the first testers who who tried it found that if the uh the packet was one day over out of date, the machine wouldn't press it. So they squeezed it with their hands and found it did exactly the same job as the machine. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Yeah. Or juicero was saying you need an insane amount of force to cold press the juicers. Yeah. That was the mindset that was based on.

Marc Curtis 47:37

But they didn't test, but but they didn't do any user testing. Yeah. I mean that was that was their biggest crime, right? You know, they did the opposite of you, they didn't get it in front of customers straight away. They they they basically went through the whole development and design process and then gave a finished product sort of what you said you did, but not what you did. They did the opposite. They actually they didn't fake it till they make it, they they made it and then failed to fake it.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Exactly, yeah. Anyway, sorry, that was the subject.

Expansion Plans And Competition

Marc Curtis 48:02

I I I love the story, Jesura, because to me it's a cautionary tale. It's it's it's what happens when you don't involve users in in your product journey. What's what's the next couple of years looking like for you in triple?

SPEAKER_00 48:15

We have uh big ambitions. So um now we're really busy on um a few tracks actually um internationalization or expanding, sorry, internationally um launching in uh in a few countries this year alone. So we have European ambitions and further. So going expanding our reach within the workplace aspect.

Marc Curtis 48:44

And do you and do you see for the moment anyway, B2B as being or the workplace anyway, as being your the one place you want to be. You don't want to do anything consumer, you don't want to do to go shops or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Well the long-term vision is to do that as well.

Marc Curtis 48:56

So the build the brand in the workplace so you get that recognition so that when people are seeing Drupal outside of the workplace, they've already they already know who you are, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

That's a bit of the the way that we're thinking about it indeed. Because in the long term, the the why is to make sure that you can drink more sustainable, that you're hydrated day in and out, and and that's not limited to workplaces, you're not only working.

Marc Curtis 49:22

That would be the obvious step, right? You know, the the the the the the Nespresso machine is kind of industrialized, convenient coffee solutions for the home. Yeah. Um but I mean, presumably you could do I mean I suppose that the market there is sort of already there with SodaStream, I guess, isn't it? Yeah. Although SodaStream, interesting. Sorry, I'm I'm I go off and one about SodaStream. I love SodaStream, but not because I like the flavoured drinks, but because I just if you want to make sparkling water, it's it's a no-brainer because you don't end up with loads of plastic bottles of sparkling. So they SodaStream has sort of become a sparkling water company, not a flavoured water company in a way.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So that aspect I think when launching the home market, don't know in what format that will be. That could be in all kinds of formats. I think it will more lean into a solution where you're matching um your soda stream or ARCA machine or uh um carbonator, so to say, with some flavors where you have a super convenient way of combining that um and making your um yeah your package-free in the end, a healthier drink at home as well, as you would do at at the workplace with triple. Um but yeah, to be seen if that's really has to be a device, another device on your counter at home, um or uh smart that matches your taps in your house now that can do hot water and carbonated water.

Marc Curtis 50:56

You know, you just need another setting for triple, really, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Exactly that.

Marc Curtis 51:00

You just need to turn the knob and I'll take five percent of whatever you uh you can have the idea, but I just want to appreciate it. We'll have to handshake that or something. Fair enough. Um so so it's international expansion, it's focusing on the workplace still, that's the growth market. Yeah. Do you who are your competitors at the moment? Or are you really in a blue ocean?

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Yeah. You have um two main competitors, I would say. Um one that's based on the US that has been there for a while already, and a Dutch company. And we see that we're forming the market together, actually, so it's also definitely not a bad thing to have competitors. I think on one hand shows that there's a market, the second hand, definitely within a few category, we can also benchmark more uh with uh with each other. Um so we see that we're building together and yeah, this this category, and and so far there's a huge market. We're all three growing really well.

Marc Curtis 52:01

And so um and you're looking for investors still? Are you looking for a next round to help with the expansion or are you tapping up your existing uh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 52:10

We closed around at the end of last year um and uh made it public in January. So at this moment we're pretty well funded and actually we're operationally prop profitable, which uh makes sure that we can actually stand on our own feet that's amazing at this moment, which is really great. Yeah, that's really well done on that. Congratulations on that. Um so honestly, we'll have the optionality to raise more funds and see if that makes sense for us down the line or um keeping the cap table as it is today. Wonderful.

Inspiration Question And Closing

Marc Curtis 52:44

Okay, I'm gonna stop asking silly questions about drinks. Um, I I always try and it's a format point, and I'm I'm still not convinced that format points are a good idea, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. I always finish uh the podcast on asking one question, which is in your life, either professionally or personally, who's been your biggest inspiration? Who do you look to, you know, do you want to emulate or who's inspired you in some way? It could be anybody living, dead, family, friends.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Interesting. I think the biggest inspiration I drew from um uh Drew from was one person in particular, definitely in the in the early days of triple, um forming the company. Um the kind of mindset that we had on uh building an impact startup as well uh was Jonas Malise, the the founder of Tuco to go Belgium. Okay, and so uh he tested as well as one of the first uh believers, and he taught us so much at the time uh sales and marketing on uh how to recruit, how to build a company. So shout out to Jonas, he's a great friend in the meantime. And so I'd have to say one name that shaped our first and starting year, starting period, that was definitely that's brilliant.

Marc Curtis 54:04

Well, that's great. I mean, I've I've I think everybody can identify with that. I mean, it sounds like you've had some great advice. I mean, the temptation, I guess, if you're a startup is if somebody offers you money, you take it. If you, you know, if somebody offers you a contract, you take it. What it sounds like he's given you is a bit of think about it, think about what you want to achieve, think about the kind of people you want to work with. Stick to your own uh, I guess, core ethical, sort of moral business frameworks as well, which exactly which I'm really pleased to say hear that you're still, you know, it still drives you, it's still a passion point for you guys. Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. Well, look, um Colin, thank you so much for coming in and visiting me and and and doing the podcast here. It's been really great talking to you. Um looking forward to seeing you in um in June. Gosh, it's only almost like a month and a half away now, so we'll see you there. So that'll be fun. Um please put some matcha in one of the machines and then I and then and then you can you can film me having my first ever matcher experience.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

I'll have to dispounge you. It's it's a matter drink that we have, like a tea. Oh but I'll make sure that there's some matcha for you as well. I'll I'll bring some mark. Don't film it anyway. It's uh it's matte tea. It's like the Argentinian tea. If you ever seen an Argentina drink that the colour bus, yeah, it's called like yeah. Okay, there's also natural energy.

Marc Curtis 55:22

Does it help with hearing at all? Because could it clearly get what now it does?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

He'll make sure it does.

Future Of Work Event Invite

Marc Curtis 55:28

Excellent, perfect. Well, really good to speak to you anyway, Colin. Thank you so much for coming in. Likewise, thanks, Brock. No worries. Hope you enjoyed that conversation with Colin. I certainly did. He's a really nice guy, and honestly, his business, the reasons he does it, the quality of the products he sells, um, the ideas behind it, all absolutely fascinating. And and I'm just, you know, it brings me such pleasure to see somebody like him doing and succeeding at you know what started for him and and um and Lucas as a passion project. So I wish him the very best of luck. Um, as as Dripple develops and as it expands to take over the world, I'm sure you'll be seeing his drinks in your workplace soon. You can certainly see him in a lot of Belgian businesses now. And he will also be at the future work event on June the 18th. Colin and Dripple are actually our official uh flavoured. I'm still not keen on the flavoured water thing. I think they need to find a better way of describing them the category, but he is the um the flavoured water supplier of record for the future work event. So if you come along on the 18th of June, you get to chance, uh get a chance to try the drinks that they've created, see the machine that they've created as well, to dispense those drinks, um, and even meet Colin and potentially some of the investors because I know Spidel will be there as well, they're providing uh water for the event. So looking forward to seeing you then. Thanks again to Colin and looking forward to seeing you on the next podcast. Thanks a lot.