Smart Glasses Will Replace Phones Sooner Than You Think

A phone in your hand has become the default shape of modern life, but what if the next interface is something you already wear? I’m joined by Robin Solleveld, General Manager at EssilorLuxottica in the Netherlands, to unpack why smart glasses are suddenly hitting the usability and price point that wearables promised for years, and why Ray-Ban Meta and Oakley Meta are turning wearable AI into something people actually choose to wear all day. 

We get specific on business value: hands-free support for technicians, live POV calling, instant translation across multilingual teams, and voice-driven notes that can be transcribed and sent without breaking flow. Robin also shares what’s coming next for B2B, including the potential of an SDK that lets organisations build tailored apps for field engineers, service teams and other roles where “eyes up, hands free” matters. Alongside the opportunity, we dig into privacy, ethics and workplace policy, and why companies need to treat smart glasses like any other enterprise device with clear rules, training and accountability. 

Then we zoom out to the future of work and health tech. Robin explains “enhanced reality” versus augmented reality, the next generation prototype with an in-lens display and wristband control, and why eyewear could become the most personal computing platform we’ve ever had. We also explore hearing support through Nuance Audio, and how the eye may become a gateway to preventive healthcare through better screening and AI-assisted analysis. If you’re curious about wearable AI, smart glasses, workplace productivity and where the interface is heading next, this one will stretch your thinking. Subscribe, share with a colleague and leave a review with your most interesting wearable AI use case.

Find out more about the Future of Work -> www.future-of-work.eu

Transcript

Welcome And Why Smart Glasses

Marc Curtis 0:00

Hi, welcome to the Pioneers Podcast. I'm Mark Curtis. Today I'm going to be speaking to Robin Selved. Robin is the general manager of Esselor Luxotica. They are the main retailers of the Ray-Ban Meta glasses. That's wearable AI, and now most recently with their latest generation actual augmented reality, or at least they've got a small uh digital display that actually beams into your eyes. I'll ask him a little bit about that. In our interview, uh Robin is also going to be at the Future of Work event in three weeks' time. So if you're not actually signed up for that, I urge you to see if you can get a ticket. There are a few still available. That should be super interesting because really this is about what is the next step for AI, what is the next step for the digital interface, how we're interacting with our devices and our technologies. So without me waffling on any more about it, let's hear my interview with Robin. Robin Solovd, really nice to meet you. Thank you so much for joining me to have a chat on the Pioneers podcast today. Very briefly, I'll introduce you and you can maybe go into a little bit more detail on it, but you are the general manager of Etelol Exotica's Professional Solutions in the Netherlands. I think I've got that right. Brilliant. And Etelo Laxotica are arguably at the centre of one of the most commercially significant wearable technology stories of the last decade. And I think it's fair to say that whilst there's been lots and lots of hype over the last 20 years about wearable technologies, it feels like we're at a point now where, or we have been at a point for for the last year where it's become within the reach of usability and price of normal people, and it's actually making sense for people to get involved. But um but like I say, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to me.

Robin Solleveld 1:44

Thanks. And uh thank you for the invite. It's a pleasure being here.

Marc Curtis 1:47

Um so uh smart glasses now account for more than and and again, please correct me if I get this wrong, but more than a third of your um revenue growth at the moment. Um would that be an accurate an accurate picture? Um and and Meta are already putting more and more resources into their wearable

The Wearable AI Inflection Point

Marc Curtis 2:07

AI um technology. And I s and just before I was talking to you a little bit about how Apple are pivoting as well to that to that. Is is is that a fair representation? Are we at an inflection point in terms of of wearable AI?

Robin Solleveld 2:19

Well, that that's definitely uh I would say an understatement. Uh today we are we are at the at the starting of uh of something very, very important that's that's happening, and that is the the ability of tech to be integrated in a pair of spectacles. And it is going beyond the the regular uh enhancement of someone's aesthetics, and you're actually enhancing people's lives and enabling people to be more, to be more in the moment, to remove screens in between conversations, and it is simply becoming the interface and the go-to interface for people to rely on when they want to access um phone calls, when they want to send text messages, or um check on uh uh instead of sending a message on your uh whatever is your favorite um application for uh for AI, you can just simply ask your glasses. So it's it's becoming at the center point of interaction uh where it already has been a statement of care and and lifestyle. Now it's actually enabling people to be more present in the moment and enabling to be more.

Marc Curtis 3:32

Okay, that's a really interesting take. And and I'll get on in a minute, and I'd love to talk to you about where the business applications are, because first and foremost, you know, this is a podcast in the business world. But it does make me and this is something I was discussing with one of my colleagues earlier who, as I was saying just before, is is absolutely obsessed with um wearable AI and has, you know, already has the first generation glasses and he's just ordered the next one. But one of the things I was talking to him about was uh you know, it's it's all over the news at the moment, especially in the UK and Australia, we're trying to get younger people off screens. There's a general consensus that social media is is not great. Um this doom scrolling is not great. And clearly these glasses they represent an entirely new way of interacting with our technology. What what will that look like? I mean, is that going to be a complete reinvention of how we interact?

Design Matters More Than Tech

Robin Solleveld 4:22

I I believe it will uh ease a lot of processes with a lot of um um professions but also with consumers. So if you if we start with with the person, because it is a person that needs to be able to wear the pair of smart glasses at comfort, it needs to look nice because people don't want to wear technology, they want to wear a brand to which they associate themselves to. Then if that enables you to do be more efficient at work, that's fantastic. And that is where we can deep dive a bit later on in the podcast on what are the business applications that we foresee on this. But first and foremost, we need to enhance a person's life and lifestyle. And the way that we interact, absolutely, that will change. Uh, because today we spoke earlier about um sports. Um, we have uh brands in our portfolio of SLODEXOtica that are pure sports. So Oakley uh is one of those brands, Ray Ban is a brand more focused on lifestyle, um, and they they draw different audiences. Um where we as SLXotica think we can add value to the wearables is the fact that we adapt our assortment to the lifestyle of our audience. And that means that we have uh sporty frames, we have lifestyle frames, and the sport frames, for example, are also enabled with a far going integration with Strava and Garmin. So it's actually becoming a whole interface between the the watch and uh my my friends uh that using Strava, and I can ask my classes how much better I'm performing than my buddy Rudger, who is cycling, and uh how far how much faster I'm going compared to he his last ride.

Marc Curtis 6:14

I can already see that the Netherlands market is absolutely clamoring to be able to beat one another on cycling performance on Strava.

Robin Solleveld 6:20

Absolutely.

Marc Curtis 6:21

Um we are recording this on video, and whilst most people do listen to this as an audio podcast, um we do put the video on Spotify as well. So you can hold up the the Oakley ones. I'd never seen them before if you if you want to show them. So with with those, uh do they have the head-up those bronze presumably don't have a head up display. They're just they're just audio um interactive action, right?

Robin Solleveld 6:42

So it's uh audio and it has a light uh interaction indicator, and on the front as well, it's uh equipped with a camera, and on the temples you have two open-air speakers, which is let's say the basic recipe for our wearables. If it is coming to the sports applications one, so the the Oakley Vanguard, uh Oakley Meta Vanguard has uh boosted audio performance because if you're riding 40k an hour on a bike or if you're running you want to have uh a bit more fidelity when it comes to the speakers. Also, the microphones are slightly different. Um the integration is specific to the Oakley ones, uh, whereas the Ray Ban ones are more focused on um on the lifestyle element of it. So we have for every uh uh brand uh we have various, so it's not a one size fits all, and that is where we put the emphasis on the tech needs to be good, but it needs to serve a purpose. It's not the purpose itself to wear the tech. You want to wear a nice pair of glasses that you can wear for the full day, because if you wear glasses, you probably need correction. So you don't want to you cannot take them off. So that's why we have designed for uh for our Ray Band, we have, for example, now five different models. And we just recently introduced two which are specific for our the optical wearers, which have enhanced comfort features, uh adjustable nose pads, adjustable uh temples. So you can actually do the fitting, which is quite remarkable because in those temples there's a lot, a lot of tech um that's hidden underneath. So for every user we have different products which would then seamlessly mold into their lifestyle.

Marc Curtis 8:25

Well, no, I'd say, and I and I was asking Jens my uh my my uh my colleague how he uses his because I was interested, you know, given that he's such a fan, you know, what's your use case? And he was like, travel. For him, it's you know, he goes maybe maybe arguably if you're listening, Jens, too many holidays. Um but you know, he he he he does travel a lot with his with his partner, no kids. Um I'll leave that there. Um, you know, he gets to see a lot of the world, and and click for him being able to walk into any situation and get translations or be able to look at something and understand what it is or where he is uh is super important.

Robin Solleveld 8:59

Exactly.

Real Business Wins From Hands Free

Marc Curtis 9:00

What is so let's go circle back to the business applications. What what what is what is this going to do to the business world? And and I'll caveat this by saying that probably twelve years ago, whenever it was that that they briefly appeared, um, in my previous role, I I um we had a a set of Google Glasses and we use them a lot, and there was a lot of promise around the B2B um applications of of Google Glass. It didn't quite work out like that. I'm very defensive of Google Glass, because actually I just see it as being a really interesting stepping stone to where we are now rather than being a failure, which is how it's been reported a lot. But but I'm interested in your take. Where where are we going from a business perspective?

Robin Solleveld 9:38

So let me start close to home, and that is uh in our in our day-to-day. So SLOXOTA is uh one of the largest multinationals when in the optics industry. So we have in the same office we have multiple languages uh represented, but also our teams are across countries. So, for example, I have technicians that are operating uh in the in the optical stores. Uh they usually need both hands to ensure that they are holding either uh um a pair of tweezers and a magnifying glass, or because it's all so small, uh, but still they need to consult with a colleague. And we said, okay, but let's uh make sure that we also do what we actually preach and equip those guys with a pair of uh wearables with uh Raban uh meta smart glasses. So we did, and now we see actually that it's so easy for them to call just a colleague to find out, hey, where should I look at what is not actually gonna help me solve this case? And and that is one from a visual support point of view on the receiving end and then getting f vocal instructions. On the other hand, what you already mentioned, uh your colleague with too many uh holidays is the translation part, because we have also uh team members that are not proficient in English uh but are very good professionals. So we have this live translation option where they can actually have a talk together in their native tongue and they get an instantaneously uh translation into the language their preference, and that makes it so much easier. It avoids me uh paying for uh translation fees, um, it it speeds up projects much faster. Um, the moment that they need to take notes, they can take notes by just uh telling the classes, hey, listen in, transcribe, and send it an email. So there are countless already practice practical examples within our company.

Platform Lock In And The SDK

Marc Curtis 11:45

And and and how I mean obviously it's a meta it's a meta product, but how how dependent is it on that platform? It's is there is can it work with other models or other platforms, or is it very much linked to the meta platform?

Robin Solleveld 11:59

So today it is um fully designed to be accessible as possible. So that means that uh we have a full integration with uh with a meta suite of products. You have your WhatsApp, you have your Instagram, etc. etc. All supported, and all the settings are done in the meta AI app, which is either on your phone or iPad. Um you can decide what you want to share, what you do not want to share. You can uh set um access to whatever range of photos of microphones or whatever you feel comfortable with, you can make manage that. Um, and that is like you said, we want to enable this for the mass market. We want people to have access to it. Because if you recall, the Google glasses were extremely expensive.

Marc Curtis 12:50

Yeah, they were they were about a thousand pounds, I think, if I remember the first when they said exactly, exactly.

Robin Solleveld 12:54

And that is then you would need to put a pair of conscription glasses in it as well if you want to actually use it. So we want to ultimately enable everyone to have access to a pair of wearables, and it should not be more expensive than a regular pair of frames. And that is what uh what we have been succeeding to. Now, if we want to, and that is I'd say it as a as a natural evolution, um, unlock more business potential, so a B2B uh potential. Um we are planning uh in the in the future, near future, uh opening up the SDK, so the software developer kit so that we can have tailored um uh applications for the classes.

Privacy Risks And Workplace Policy

Marc Curtis 13:42

Uh I mean I suppose and and and uh you know I'm a tech optimist, but but I but I'd be negligent if I didn't think about the other side of it. Do you do you think there's a a risk management conversations that organizations should be having about having always on cameras and um and AI assistance in the workplace, for example? Do you you know is it does that require because right now we're going through a a huge transition period just around AI, right? So businesses are having to scramble to implement policy, to look at compliance, to look at security, all of these aspects. And this is before you even get to whether or not it actually brings benefits to the business. Quite often businesses are almost getting stuck on the policy and the the compliance side of it. When you layer in AI plus you know potential privacy concerns, for example, in in the workplace, how how do you think businesses should be thinking about navigating that?

Robin Solleveld 14:36

I I think the businesses should be vigilant as always. Um we should always make sure that we put the interest and the safety of our employees at the center of our care. And that is also what's uh what what we've done when designing the fr uh these glasses, for example. Um they have this privacy indicator. So if I would, for example, now snap a picture of you, I just simply either tell the camera to do it or I press the button. And then you see you saw the LED for the case.

Marc Curtis 15:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robin Solleveld 15:09

The moment that I would cover the LED, I cannot make any recording. And that is a big difference if you if you say, for example, yeah, but it's so much easier now to record. Well, yes, it might be because I have my hands free. On the other hand, my phone has been recording all the time without anyone noticing. For example, you know, it it could have been the case. Um, so it is how people deal with it, and that's the ethics, and I I think the wider discussion how to treat tech, how to use tech, and and I think that is something which is um um a wider discussion um that society is having with itself, I'd say, and and that is where the boundaries are being set. That's not set by us.

Marc Curtis 15:57

Uh no, no, I complet I completely agree. I mean, yeah, the this is the thing, we're always somewhat behind where people are actually beginning to use tech, and and ultimately I guess you can't really control how people use it. I guess within the within the within the business world, then they're they always become I mean it's a bit like being on a company laptop, right? If you're on a company laptop, you have to assume that everything you're doing is the property of the company you're working with. So I guess if you're wearing um enterprise um supplied glasses within the business environment, then there would have to be some kind of enterprise policy that would go alongside that so people understand how they're using it, you know, in the workplace.

Robin Solleveld 16:35

Exactly. And and uh so for us we uh we invest heavily in uh in AI, even um we have our our dedicated departments, we are developing our own AI uh tools for people to um be more effective and um to to work smarter instead of work harder. Uh and and that is really what what AI does for a lot a lot of us professionals. It just lightens a lot of workload. Um it helps you craft quick decision-making uh profiles. Uh I just I make the decision, but based on summaries that I'm getting, uh based on and those summaries are tailored to my tone of voice that I appreciate, highlights that I file value based on what I see as the right way forward. So that is doing a great job and and supporting us and enabling us to actually be more effective on the day-to-day. And for example, in our company we have uh a strong integration with uh with Microsoft Copilot uh in a complete closed environment, uh so everything is secured, and that gives enables a lot of our colleagues also to be more effective. Um and just to for

Sensors And The Shift To Healthcare

Robin Solleveld 17:55

the for for the sake of clarity, the the glasses are operated within the meta AI uh part. We do manufacturing design and we have a partnership to merge the tech and and and the production together.

Marc Curtis 18:09

No, uh uh yeah, I mean I I can I can absolutely see I mean the there's almost two parallel conversations, isn't there, in a way. You've got the you've got the explosion of AI and all that that entails, and that's a massive subject, something obviously we're going to be talking a lot about at the future of work conference, which um you're gonna be speaking at as well, which I'm very much looking forward to. Um, you know, but there will be conversations there about the role of human beings, what it does to people within the workplace, and you know how it changes our personal interactions. So you've got that AI conversation, and then obviously you've got the wearable conversation, you know, and we've had wearable tech for quite a long time as well, and that's always been more a conversation around data collection and you know utility and so forth. Um and and what's fascinating to me is the way these two things have merged, you know, for me anyway, quite rapidly. Uh you know, it's it it seems to have I mean it hasn't happened overnight, obviously, as you know, you've been you've been in this business for a couple of years now, but uh it suddenly it's it's it's an entirely new conversation. The the AI thing is developing, but now we've got a completely different way of interacting with it and you know removing the barriers and the frictions um that are growing up alongside the development of the technology.

Robin Solleveld 19:15

Yeah, and and and Mark, this is this is just the beginning. We are at the starting point, and and so the future is happening now, uh, but the future is so much different from what it is today, what's going to be. And uh to make it concrete on on you, what we can do, imagine what you can do the moment that you put uh some more sensors in these pair of glasses. So they come, they go from uh a passive device which acts whenever you call upon it, to uh a healthcare provider and monitoring your overall health. You are maybe a heart patient and uh you should avoid stressful moments. The moment that we have uh sensors that are measuring your pupils uh and your uh your your blinking, uh everything that you can see combined with heart rate, you can automatically set up warnings the moment that you are crossing a certain threshold. So we can we can go so far, and the tech enables us to really go that far. Um and now we just need to make sure what are the business applications we want to cater to. And one important uh let's say implication we all face is that we have a shortage on healthcare stuff, and the pressure on the healthcare system and the need for uh the optical sector to step up or the first line uh of care is is increasing a lot, and the tech will enable us to complete that journey. And another piece of equipment that we we're pushing, and that's not to push products, but just to tell you what is possible, is that we have today we know that combined with your eyes, your sight, and your hearing, you have approximately ninety, ninety-two percent of all your cognitive senses are catered for between eyes and ears.

Marc Curtis 21:12

Right.

Robin Solleveld 21:13

And the moment that we are dropping in hearing uh capabilities or eyesight loss, your cognitive functions also rapidly decreasing. So we see people going in isolation, we see it going into uh early stages of onset, dementia. It it all accelerates. So the moment that we cannot feed our brain with with input, we see that that activity drops. And so that's why we're also combining um our smart glasses with hearing opportunities. So we have a dedicated range of product which is called Nuance Audio. And Nuance Audio has just launched in the Netherlands and will soon in Belgium by the end of this year, UK we've launched earlier last year. So we are across. Across Europe and with all those let's say healthcare indicators and support to make sure that people function to the best of their abilities. So it's all stigmas.

Hearing Support With Nuance Audio

Marc Curtis 22:12

Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's so it feels the whole conversation is being built around augmentation rather than you know redundancy, so to speak. I think you you had that you had a stand there with the um with the hearing augmentation ones, and it was designed so that you can because I I mean I'm you know I'm in my mid-50s, so my eyesight's going, my hearing is going, you know, everything's everything's breaking down. And and actually being in a noisy, crowded room trying to hear what somebody's saying right in front of me when you've got lots of you know, the the cocktail party effect, I think they call it. I think that was one of the things that the the that the glasses are seeking to solve, right?

Robin Solleveld 22:50

To to actually No, so and and and that's it it looks like a perfect pair of normal glasses, and it's literally this.

Marc Curtis 22:58

Right.

Robin Solleveld 22:59

It's even lighter than a regular pair. And it has directional microphones on the front, which solves a very important problem, is that conventional hearing aids they amplify everything, and they are behind the ear. So where the sound is coming from, if you want to have a a conversation with someone in front of you, you have the sound on the back of you as well amplified, which is disturbing. Um and with directional microphones you can solve that. And of course, since there are temples, uh why not put microphones there as well? So you can choose whether to hear 360 or just directional.

Marc Curtis 23:36

And and is there are there plans to sort of combine all of these technologies together into one platform? So you you've you've got the the AI stuff, but you've also got the the nuanced hearing stuff as well.

Robin Solleveld 23:47

For now we we split those because one is made for a specific function, um, which is hearing amplification. And uh you can see the smart glasses being really or the wearables to be really a multimedia platform. Um it's an all-round device.

Marc Curtis 24:05

So just just continuing the conversation about the future. And I can and by the way, I think the hearing thing potentially is a game changer as well. Only only based on the fact that I know how expensive these little private hearing aids I mean, they seem to cost thousands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It blows my mind how much people are prepared to pay for these things. When you can buy you know, you can you can buy cheap.

Robin Solleveld 24:25

I don't know if their people are prepared to pay it, but it's it's something that they are forced to pay. And that's again, it it it's our ambition to make this accessible. So for under 800 euros you have a pair of uh hearing aids.

Marc Curtis 24:40

And prescription glasses as well, presumably.

Robin Solleveld 24:42

Exactly.

Marc Curtis 24:43

Yeah. Uh no, I mean i in a way it feels like the the hearing aid market's about to have some the same thing happen to it that the the sat nav market happened when uh when mobile phones started um doing Google Maps.

Robin Solleveld 24:55

That's that's the that's the beauty of it. So we you and without being too technical about the hearing part, but we have let's say globally we'd recognize four stages of hearing loss. And the traditional hearing market with hearing aids, they serve uh the let's say the most severe two uh categories, whereas we serve only the first two. And it takes about seven years for a person to actually step into an audiology store and say, Hey, I have something, I need a solution. It takes them seven years to make that call, and then probably they go straight on to conventional hearing aids because they have suffered for seven years through those early stages of hearing loss. So it's really a complementary uh product uh that is bridging a gap today of comfort, but also it's not threatening someone's uh bread and butter today. It's a additional.

Marc Curtis 25:51

I suppose it's it's similar in it, you know, I suppose the parallel is reading glasses, right? You know, certainly when I when I started having to do that more, you know, to read you know to to hold the menu further away from my face, I realised that I started need you know, and it took me actually quite a long time to get a prescription because that market was actually well served by OTC over-the-counter um you know products, which I guess at a slightly higher price point, this is what you're talking about with the with the glasses.

Display Lenses And Wristband Control

Marc Curtis 26:16

Um just going back to the future, so um and again we spoke about it very briefly before before we started, which was that there's a new generation now which is in sort of development prototype stage, which which you were saying not many people have actually experienced yet. I believe it has a a neural wristband as well. So it's it's got a it's got a separate um input device or uh tell me a little bit about that. And and so this feels like a real step change, right?

Robin Solleveld 26:44

This is this is this product is is really um pushing the boundaries of technology, and and that is literally what it does. It's it's embedding uh a display functionality in a prescription lens uh made to you as a person because every prescription is unique. So we make this on prescription. Uh you have a um a color display in that transparency. So if people look at you, they do not see this display. Um you control the glasses with uh indeed a wristband, and with the simple movement of a wrist or wrist or finger, you can either type a message or navigate through the menu. And um you have your um your Google or your Ways navigation working on it, you have your WhatsApp there, you can do video calls, it's it the sky is the limit. And that is a project which we have uh started with with Meta. So it's also the glasses are branded uh Meta Raban uh glasses. So it's not Raben Meta, it's Meta Raban. And it's also the the only one that is co-branded with one on one side you see the meta logo, on one side you see the Raban logo. And this is really also from Meta away to see how far can they push the tech. Um, and we have now uh 32 selected doors in the US where it's available, and we have a queue up to the end of this year already uh for people that want a pair of that. Um price point is just above a thousand dollars. Um and it's really a pilot, as I mentioned it, because we are looking to have um participation also of the buyers. So we're asking for their user feedback to really improve this and that we can scale this up. It is not an as a sexy-looking frame as the as the ones that we have today in the stores. It is a bit more clunky, it's a bit bigger, but of course it's also because they're more powerful tech in it.

Marc Curtis 28:50

And and and what is this I mean again, like I said, this feels like the next the next big leap. So you're actually you've actually got the ability to have a display. Is that display simply for information purposes or can it, you know, can it augment what you're looking at? So my my dream, by the way, because because my memory is so bad for people and faces, that when I can walk into a room, I can look around and everybody will have a little LinkedIn profile floating above their head with their name and you know their kids and all this kind of i uh is that where we're heading with this?

Robin Solleveld 29:20

We are now we are talking about uh enhanced reality glasses. It's not augmented reality glasses. Right. So if we if we're gonna be able to do it.

Marc Curtis 29:27

So explain the difference.

Robin Solleveld 29:29

So the augmented reality glasses effectively is putting something in a room in your site which is not there. And it's uh like uh your Mercedes bands that is projecting your navigation on the front uh windscreen um without having to take your eye off the road. So everything is projected on that window. That is augmented reality. You're navigating into something which isn't there. Then if you're talking about enhanced reality, it is simple, it is the AI that is supporting you in being better at that moment. If you ask it questions, what am I looking at? What have I just done? Where have I parked my car? Uh, what is what can I make with the ingredients in my fridge by simply looking into your fridge? You go into the supermarket, you ask for it to help you remember what was in my fridge. I'm in this supermarket, which aisle should I find my milk? Um, those are the things that is where where we uh today can help uh with the enhanced reality glasses.

Replacing Phones And Summarising Life

Marc Curtis 30:29

So again, just being slightly contrarian here, and and I talk about this a lot, again, because I'm old, right? So I'm I'm old enough to remember a time before mobile phones, I'm even old enough to remember the time before calculators are in school. And at each point when you when we introduce these new technologies. We benefit from we benefit from what they give us in terms of you know access to information or shortcutting mundane tasks with calculators, we don't have to use mental arithmetic anymore with phones, we don't have to remember phone numbers or contacts. Arguably with AI one of the one of the criticisms is that maybe some people are outsourcing their their cognition, their thinking. Is there a danger with this or uh of of becoming reliant upon you know the immediacy of of the information that these could display, or or or is it really just an evolution of where we are currently with mobile phone technology?

Robin Solleveld 31:23

It is it I think it's a s an evolution. And what is what is also our vision is that the the glasses will replace mobile phones.

Marc Curtis 31:34

Right.

Robin Solleveld 31:34

We we will not be using mobile phones in the near future. Um it simply replaces the tech is already allowing us to see whatever is to read the messages that are sent to us or to hear the messages that are sent to us. We get things amplified, we can call, we can navigate, we can uh in combination with that look better and have it ultra personalized. So these classes are more personal than a phone will ever be.

Marc Curtis 32:00

So that that does beg the question then, where where is I mean, I don't care by the way, because I happily see it disappear, but where does TikTok sit in that or or YouTube if if if we're not interfacing it, you know, if we're not sitting there doom scrolling on a phone. That sounds like a positive thing, right?

Robin Solleveld 32:16

So absolutely, because it puts the people in the present. And that is that is what what is the power of these glasses. It puts the people at the center, it puts the discussion again into a a dialogue without having a screen in in between. So it's always that. If you take a picture of your kids, look at this. There is a always something in front of my face, and to to uh to live that moment. The moment I was um last year it was the the start of uh of this uh the launch of wearables in in the Netherlands, and uh we were attending the Formula One Grand Prix in Zandvoort, and I vividly remember everyone standing up, taking pictures, looking at the GP through their phones, and I was just looking there, taking a video, and it was I was living the moment. This for me was the most powerful example of how in a personal day-to-day I benefit from these classes. Now, like now, we have this podcast interview. I I'm not wearing the sweaty headset that you are, and you still you can hear me just fine.

Marc Curtis 33:19

Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, yeah, but there is a reason for that. Um I with without wishing to get too technical, there's a there's a latency issue. So, no, I I completely agree. Uh what I really I mean, genuinely one of the biggest game changes for me in terms of you know, as I was saying before, I do a lot of running. So I have the bone conducting headphones, which which genuinely I find the most comfortable, you know, I wear them all day long. These these things I only ever now wear them when I'm either on the metro or when I'm doing podcast interviews, because as you say, they're another barrier, they they they insulate you, and you know, being being on a day like today, you you you're sweating sweating your head off inside them as well. So so okay, so you're you're using them to remove barriers between you and the experiences you're having. So does that does that create a new set of behaviours around when we you know do you foresee I'm trying to frame this properly because w one one of the issues I have with people, as you say, who go to the Grand Prix and they just take loads of photos and stuff is the question I would always ask them is when are you looking at them? When are you looking at these things? With the glasses uh the capacity or the the ability to record vast quantities of video is is is vastly increased from that of a mobile phone, right? Because because it's so accessible. So what do we do with that? What's happening with all of that video and how are we making sense of it? So what's what's the next level there?

Robin Solleveld 34:44

So what I do, so I used to live in the Middle East and um I I'm an outdoors person, and uh so either I was uh on the sea sailing, uh doing lots of regattas, or I was in the desert doing june bashing. And I have uh a drone. This was before the wearables age. I have a drone and the drone I just lit it up the air, I tell it follow me, and it was following me, and it was shooting content, content, content. Then at the end of the day, I simply press uh uh summarize my day, it summarizes it on highlights 30 seconds, shareable video. Easy, done and dusted. The same you can do with your uh with your glasses. You simply upload all your uh content to either an iPad or a phone or whatever, um, and you make a summary of the day. The moment that you are maybe walking somewhere and you want to video call, um, you just say uh tell the tell to the glasses, hey, call uh my wife, and and then you show to how your kids are misbehaving in the pool and splashing everyone around. So it's it's that's that's uh accessibility and the easiness of sharing that moment. And also uh these port frames obviously are are uh waterproof. So I I went into pool with them. We we handed uh um to uh Kite Surf Pros. Uh they they are filming absolutely stunning material. We see that it is utilized, and that's maybe also circling into uh applications. We're circling uh we we have um uh uh recently uh managed with uh a race trainer for Motor Moto GP but also um Formula One, they're putting those glasses on because they feel that when they put something add-on bulky on the helmets, they are not as direct because the helmets sometimes they're not like super uh sticky to the head. Uh the angle is slightly different than what is actually on your face. So if they want to analyze how is a courier, uh a race driver looking through that uh specific angle of attack, they can analyze that with the glasses. So we see a lot, a lot of different opportunities opening up. And also in the professional solutions um uh industry, so the B2B, uh like service companies, cleaning companies, real estate agents, everybody is using it, connecting it to an app, uh, making quick content um to shareable uh platforms as well.

Marc Curtis 37:19

And and and I guess that's it circles back around to AI as well. I mean, certainly, you know, even doing these podcasts actually, I've started using an AI workflow which enables me to effectively just tell the platform how I want it edited rather than having to do the editing myself. And I guess if you've got all this content and you're just asking for a a highlight wheel from your day, you you're not having to do all of that manually. It's it's effectively it's handled by by AI or some kind of intelligent system which which shortcuts the whole process.

Robin Solleveld 37:47

Yeah, and and and and that is uh what we why we say that that the moment that tech gets out of the way, your life will improve. And that that goes for the majority, maybe not for you, because you're tech driven and you want to know what is actually the hardware inside these glasses, what's the resolution of the camera, what is the size of the internal memory, etc. How many photos does it hold? But to the normal human beings, no offense, Mark, but most of the compliment. Most of the people they don't they don't care, they don't want to think about that.

Marc Curtis 38:19

Yeah, they want they just want it to work.

Robin Solleveld 38:21

Exactly. It just needs to work, it needs to serve a purpose. And the purpose is uh be there whenever I call you to be there. And and that is that is what these classes do.

Field Work Training With Live POV

Robin Solleveld 38:32

And um an another another business application that you could foresee and and we're already piloting with a few companies uh that have approached us is um you have field engineers or electricians, um, and there is a shortage of of manpower in in in the Netherlands, but I I suppose in other countries as well. But I see that we are looking for creative ways to uh support more junior uh people. So now what's happening is that junior is send on the road, senior is sitting in the control room, and whenever junior does certain steps, he is told to call my call your boss, your boss is watching exactly what you're doing. Your POV is his POV.

Marc Curtis 39:18

And presum presumably there's an AI path there as well, because over time you you know as the models get better, you could imagine a situation where they could be trained on somebody who who is who does know what they're doing and then actually offer quick turnaround advice or you know, kind of real-time advice without even having to go to a to an expert in a in a control room.

Robin Solleveld 39:38

Yeah. No, so I I would be out of my league to claim that I would know what ho what the future of AI holds, but uh the agentic AI and and the recommendation is is something which is very powerful. And uh the moment that today I'm I'm asking my classes what is the plant that is sitting in this meeting room, it tells me exactly which plant it is. If um I I ask it where can I buy it, it will give me directions uh to the nearest florist where they can find this kind of things. So this fact that it can recognize something you're looking at and then give and put you into where you're today, that is very powerful. Or I'm walking in a city I don't know, which happens quite often, is and I say, I need a sandwich, give me the best sandwich shop nearby, it just does that. And yes, you could do that with the Google search and and search for stars, but I don't need to take my phone out. I just get the directions straight into my ear. And if we're talking about AI, um this pair of glasses is is is the interface to whatever agent uh you're created for yourself, uh, and you can call upon uh it uh whenever you need.

Marc Curtis 40:51

Yeah, no, I I I I I I can see a pretty clear in your mind and your company's mind a pretty clear you know sort of place where you sit. You know, we're not we you're not you're not trying to you're not trying to eulogize about AI specifically. What you're saying is that this is a thing that already has huge business applications. This is a tech this is a this is the hardware that enables you to interact with that AI in a much more seamless and disintermediated fashion.

Robin Solleveld 41:16

Yeah, and the and the and the race is about who has the best AI platform and the f and the and the functions. Of course, you need your to to to have an AI platform that is um always uh on the on the on the cutting edge of what it can what it can do technically, and that is today where the race is at. The moment that you connect that with hardware so you can access that platform, uh that's fantastic, of course.

Marc Curtis 41:42

Yeah, it's it's it's it's funny that there was and they've disappeared quite quickly, but there were lots of I can't remember the name of it now, was it human AI or something? There was a a little wearable clip thing that had a had a button that you were meant to talk to it. Again, it feels like an extra step, and as you say, if you know, if people are wearing glasses, then you know it kind of makes sense for them to have that um sort of on tap.

Robin Solleveld 42:06

Do you think you'll there's another application to to no

Accessibility With Be My Eyes

Robin Solleveld 42:09

go on? You said you said the the the the human uh part. So there's one feature that is standard enabled in the platform, and that's called BMI's.

Marc Curtis 42:18

I was going to ask you about this because this I find absolutely fascinating.

Robin Solleveld 42:21

I and it is absolutely s amazing. This uh this B My Eyes is a an international platform of volunteers, but very well trained volunteers. So whenever you call upon this feature, you just give the prompt to your classes, and uh so it's it's initially designed for visually impaired people. So whenever you get into a pickle and a difficult um moment uh or you don't know where where the next train station is or which exit because you can't read the science because it's not well lit, whatever. You call upon it and you give the permission uh to for the other one to uh look through your lens, literally look through your lens. You hear them, they see what you see, and they guide you out of and into a safe uh space. That's fantastic. It's one of the strongest features, I honestly.

Marc Curtis 43:14

Yeah, uh well, and it's sort of it sort of bleeds into the to the question I was gonna ask you, and I'm glad you brought that up, by the way, because it was it was something I was trying to weave in there anyway. But is there then also a use case for people who don't need to wear glasses to now be wearing glasses? Because that's I'm one of those.

Robin Solleveld 43:30

So you don't you don't have a prescription, so those lenses are not I have uh so what what we see is that um seventy, sixty-five to seventy percent are prescription wearers, uh which makes it a great business case for the optical industry. Uh but also it makes it interesting enough for uh consumer electronics markets. So um people like me, I I'm uh my days are usually quite heavy leaning on on media. On Teams, uh, etc. Um at one point I was just bugged with uh with the Apple earpods. And now I have my ears open, they're free, I use them all day, and when I go outdoors they darken automatically because my eyes are protected, and whenever I go out, uh they color to the intensity of the sun um uh because of the transitions technology that is embedded in them. And this is something we decided for the Netherlands, but also on a lot of other countries, by default they are supplied with uh transitions glasses because they are also over-the-counter um consumer electronics.

EssilorLuxottica Moves Into Medtech

Marc Curtis 44:44

Interesting. It's it's it's it's so it's such a fascinating area where where you've you've gone optics, you've got consumer glasses, and you've got consumer electronics, and the three worlds are colliding. What where do you see SLO Luxotica now? Because I mean your history is is optics, right? I mean that's that's kind of you know prescriptions and so do you do you see that SLO Luxotica is becoming a new type of company now, that you know, this new hybrid company where you're offering consumer electronics, fashion, and optics at the same time? Is it a new category?

Robin Solleveld 45:15

Well, yes to all of the above and and one one more, and that is Metech. Um so you're you're absolutely right in phrasing it as in uh we are reinventing ourselves. Um we are adding a lot of um uh knowledge to our company and also expanding our our product portfolio in in in terms of brands. So we are very relevant in in the medtech sector uh with the most recent acquisitions that we did when it comes to all the measurement equipment but also treatment equipment when it comes to light therapy. Um we are partnering with universities uh and and also um uh company that is an Italian company that is designing microchips, so the architecture of microchips, how to really crack the code on low energy consumption microchips, which are so vital for the wearables. So we are really going that step beyond. We uh if you ever set foot in a in optical practice, the examination process, the protocol hasn't changed over since the 1800s. We have disrupted that a few years back with uh a different technology to do a refraction. Now we're able to just catch a brainwave and know what's your prescription. So we we are able to completely change that world. And uh this is where we hope uh to deliver a better product, a better service to our eye care professionals, but also to consumers. Because for a lot of consumers, an eye test is a test, it is stressful. It is going to a doctor, it is not something they enjoy. Um and and we're trying to take that away. But also, with the predictive modeling, with all the knowledge that you can put into an AI, the moment that you take a picture of someone's retina, we can predict um uh uh kidney deviation. Well, there's heart health and kidney disease, yeah. Everything, everything. So the eye becomes the gateway to someone's health.

Marc Curtis 47:19

Yeah, that's really interesting. I'm I'm uh full disclosure, I I used to be an intensive care nurse many years back. So I'm I'm fascinated by how you know what the intensive care unit of the future will look like if you know if we're getting data from patients, but also we're able to overlay and you know provide instant, you know, kind of instant data without having to, you know, scroll through screens and and you know look at pumps and all this kind of stuff.

Robin Solleveld 47:43

Um I feel like this is also something that is now today is is happening with with the with the AI. Uh we have uh added a uh a company to our portfolio called Retinai, and we have embedded Retinai into our uh Heidelbeck engineering products, which is the gold standard in in optics, um, which allows basically any practitioner to either refer a patient for uh ophthalmology research or say, no, you're fine. And and that, guided by the right professionals with the right protocols, I think can uh alleviate a lot of pressure out of the healthcare system, eventually will reduce cost of healthcare, uh, cost of insurances will go down the moment that we're able to connect those dots. And this is something which the company is investing in heavily. So you're right by saying we're reinventing ourselves, going from optics to lifestyle, but also into healthcare, into domestic.

How Leaders Should Start Piloting

Marc Curtis 48:45

That's a massive shift. Um knowing that we've only got a couple of minutes left, um, just a couple of final questions. I i if you were uh if you were talking to business leaders today, so not necessarily a tech company, just an ordinary organization, what's the one thing they should be doing right now to prepare themselves for wearable AI in the workplace? What what you know should should they be looking at use cases? Are we too early for them to be starting to think about that? Or or or or are there pilots or tests or initiatives that that we can be thinking about as businesses?

Robin Solleveld 49:14

There there are many uh instances you can already think uh or apply to to to another industry. So I would definitely say to those business leaders, make sure to jump on board, make sure to invest time in understanding what the tech can bring to the company. Um it's the same as what we do by investing time of our people for them to become fully proficient with using the usage of AI. The same goes for this uh uh the smart glasses, the wearables. We whenever we uh um open a let's say open a door or enable a new customer, um we always stimulate them uh and provide and uh actually uh them to use one or two pairs for stuff because it's only when you use it that you start to understand what it actually can bring.

Marc Curtis 50:10

So yeah, I mean it'd be a good thing.

Robin Solleveld 50:12

Jump on board, definitely.

Marc Curtis 50:14

Well, I think this is but this is the interesting point, right? You need I mean, companies already are struggling with AI adoption. You know, they the it I think it's the most talked about thing on LinkedIn at the moment is you know, your company wants to do this, but this is where your company actually is. You know, the AI adoption gap, everybody's talking about it, everybody's trying to monetize it, everybody's trying to offer their solution or you know how to fix it, you know, which which is as expected. Layer in the the hardware, which which provides a you know a cost point for the entry into the market. Clearly, there are probably more better defined use cases for wearable AI in specific industries. Um would it would you be would I be writing thinking that the places where we should maybe really be starting to think about it are places with physical locations like warehouses or maintenance companies or places where you've got people doing skilled jobs, or or do you think it's it's far more general than that? Am I being too specific when I start thinking about use cases for for wearable AR?

Robin Solleveld 51:16

It's an interesting uh point of view that you take there because yes, of course, you have your your industry with with the warehouse and skilled laborers and so on and so on. I can also foresee that um uh it will play an important part in in healthcare, like physiotherapy. How easy is it for a physiotherapist to explain how a person runs without a whole professional setup of cameras, just by looking at the person running or walking, saying, you just adjust your posture like that, and here you go. You have immediate feedback and and that that point of immediate feedback, you can apply that to any any industry, any any line of work.

Marc Curtis 51:57

There's um just as a side note, there's because that's what I was saying before the before we started talking, um, I'm I'm a keen runner, I I do ultra marathons, and there's uh there's an app that I use um called Oki. I don't know whether you've come across it. I met them, funnily enough, I think I met them at uh either VivaTech or or slush a couple of years ago, and it basically you record a video of yourself running, and then it uses AI to analyze it and it tells you what you're doing wrong. You know, you're leading too far forward, your feet, you know, it gives you a whole raft of metrics. The moment you said that with the physios, I was thinking, oh, that's an obvious one. You know, if you if you can apply that same algorithmic approach to breaking down somebody's posture or their running style or whatever, you know, either in a sports setting or a physio setting, and you can provide that in real time to the physio so they can actually implement that, then it you know what it takes, it takes creativity.

Robin Solleveld 52:47

And and then it is a a bit of daring to try, because you need to put yourself also in the shoes of not being unable to understand it, willing to open up, willing to explore new tech, and and that part is is is so important. So being curious, being daring, being bold into actually taking a leap to to go into it, to try

A Personal Pioneer And Closing

Robin Solleveld 53:12

it.

Marc Curtis 53:12

That's I think that should be on a t-shirt, because I think it's the same with almost every aspect of business, especially at the moment with AI innovation in generally. So, okay, to wrap things up, there's always a question I ask at the end. I think it's quite interesting to get from a personal perspective. It doesn't necessarily have to be anything to do with your work as um general manager of SLO in the Netherlands, but if you were to think about somebody in your life who has inspired you, somebody who you consider to be a real pioneer, who's really, you know, inspired you to do something or be a certain way or follow the career path or the personal kind of pursuits that you do, does anybody spring to mind? Doesn't have to be a famous person, could be your you know, uh a parent or it could be you know a person from history, but when you who who's inspired you in your life?

Robin Solleveld 53:59

We have uh one um uh one one we so with Oakley we we sponsor many many uh athletes. And uh one of the athletes that uh that that brings to mind as into being inspiring is Mark Cavendish. And Mark Cavendish has uh written to us uh quite early in his career as a professional um uh cyclist, um, if we would be interested in sponsoring him. And and so we have followed his journey quite closely, and we went through ups and downs throughout the whole career. And what you see there is an individual that literally never gives up, but also dares to to to to explore new grounds, to to go into different uh tactics, to make sure that you're always in front, but even if you're not comfortable to be in front. And today he's a retired um um cyclist, but still is delivering a lot, a lot of inspiration to many of us. And just keep going, having the grit to hold on to the uh on your teeth whenever things are down, that is really inspiring.

Marc Curtis 55:11

Good answer. Thank you. Well look, Robin, so nice to talk to you, and and honestly, I I you know I'm genuinely excited to see how this is. I mean, it feels like the next twelve months, the next two years are gonna be, you know, just go mad with this. And and I can see that Esselorexotica is going to be very much at the centre of this revolution. But um for now, thank you so much for being um agreeing to do the podcast and talking to me for the last hour. Um Robin Um Saloved, thank you very much.

Robin Solleveld 55:37

It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me, and speak to you soon on the future of work.

Marc Curtis 55:41

Looking forward to it.